Hear what former Trump lawyer thinks about the Jan. 6 target letter

 Let's go

to Ty Cobb now,

the former Trump White House lawyer.

Ty. Appreciate you.

So let's start with where we are tonight.

Trump finds out

he is formally a target will be he.

Will he be charged in nine days

or do you think this takes longer?

And is there any question that happens?

I think he could be charged

as early as Thursday.

And

not likely later than Monday.

All right.

Well, that's a very tight window.

So now let's talk about

charged with what?

What do you think he will be charged

with here, Ty?

There are a variety of ways

to charge this

that all boil down to the same conduct.

You know, conspiracy to defraud

the United States,

conspiracy to obstruct

or an attempt to obstruct

an official proceeding such as the

Pence proceeding

and even the state

certifications.

Potential obstruction of justice

for interference with witnesses

we've heard,

you know, suggestions

over time that some witnesses

may have lied to the

special counsel grand jury.

There's an outside chance.

And I think it's the media's

sort of the charges,

at least the

you know, the true Trump haters.

There's an outside chance

that he could be charged

with giving aid and comfort

to the insurrectionists.

And I don't think

he's going to be charged

with incitement, by the way,

although that's that's out there.

And some people are arguing that.

But I do believe he could be charged with

aid and comfort to the insurrectionists

as a result of his 3 hours of inaction

and the intervening

message, calling Pence a coward.

Well, it's interesting,

as you say, that that's possible

outside chance of that one

as opposed to the others.

That is more clear on

Now, let me ask you about

about the significance

of the target letter

in one other specific way, tie,

which is Trump's team.

They say that they were surprised

to get it. Okay. Maybe they were.

Maybe they won't.

That's what they're saying.

But then they started going around to see

if anybody else got them.

And we found out today

that John Eastman says

he did not get one,

that Rudy Giuliani did not get one.

What does this mean?

I don't think it means much.

You know, unlike a lot of people,

the reality is,

you know, they've been in contact

with Eastman and his lawyer

for some time.

They've been in contact with Rudy

and his lawyer.

Remember,

just last week, he visited with him,

I think, for two days.

They can have those conversations orally.

You know, to the extent that

those people actually are targets,

target letters are not required.

And frankly,

they typically go out in cases

such such

as this

to people

who the government is

confident will not flee.

So I wouldn't put a lot of stock

in the fact

that not everybody

has received a target letter

because unlike Trump,

many of the other people

that have been involved

have have made efforts

at least to discuss their situation

with the Justice Department

and been in contact with the department.

All right.

Interesting.

That your perspective on that.

So then the bottom line is

you've talked

about the significance of the Mar

a Lago documents case. Right.

That if yes.

If convicted

and I know there's questions on timing

and a one gets drawn out,

just put all that aside for a second.

But. Right.

Essentially, for someone his age,

a conviction, there is a life sentence.

So he already is

aware of that possibility.

Do you think this indictment is

more serious, more scary for him

than anything else or not?

So

I've got a convoluted answer, I'm

sorry to say, but

no, but only because of his narcissism.

He sees any insult as equal

to any other insult.

These are all things that just haunt him.

And

he's ready to fight back on all fronts.

It should

it should concern him more

because it will be a legacy

defining decision

and far greater than the Mar

a Lago offenses.

You know,

this is one of the great constitutional

insults of our time.

The country owes it to itself

to reassert

the rule of law and demonstrate

that at least

the vision of America

is something we're willing to protect

and hopefully deter

through punishment of Trump

if he is convicted

from ever happening again.

Ty Cobb, thank you very much.

I appreciate your perspective.

And OUTFRONT

now, Ryan

Goodman is here

with me,

our co editor in chief of Just Security,

the former

special counsel

at the Defense Department,

Karen Friedman

and fellow, the former federal prosecutor

and our legal analyst,

Van Jones, former

special adviser to President

Obama,

and Stephanie Grisham, former

Trump White House press secretary

who has spoken with federal prosecutors

investigating this particular case.

So all. Thank you.

Ryan, let me start with you.

Listening to what Ty had to say.

Interesting.

His his view here is that

just because others

didn't get a target letter,

he does not think that

that is necessarily significant

to indicate anything here.

What do you think?

I had the same thought process

that he had

about Giuliani,

that Giuliani just spent two days

with the prosecutors

in which

if he were a target,

they would have known it by then

and they would have communicated it

or could have communicated it to him.

So the fact that he didn't

get a formal letter at this stage

doesn't necessarily mean

much of anything.

Eastmond would maybe be a little bit

more of a surprise

if it means their absence

of a target letter

suggests an absence of an indictment

coming forward, which it may or may not.

May or may not.

There are others who have suggested that

the special counsel,

Smith, should make this very narrow

with Trump right away,

and then he can bring other individuals

indicted later.

And that could be what's going on.

Karen, conservative retired federal judge

Michael Luttig,

so conservative judge,

he testified

before the January six committee

he said of Trump,

shared the statement

with our Jamie Gangel.

He has dared, taunted,

provoked and goaded DOJ

to prosecute him for his offenses

relating to January

six for two and a half years.

The former president has left

Jackson with no choice

but to bring charges, lest

the former president

make a mockery of the Constitution

of the United States and the rule of law.

Similar point to what Ty was just making.

Is this the situation

that the special counsel really had

no choice?

Well, I think

in addition to this don't forget,

they also prosecuted a thousand people

for the events of January six serving

serious prison time. Exactly.

And Trump is the mastermind

He's the general. Right.

Who commanded these troops.

And so to not charge him,

I think that more than anything is why

Jack Smith had no choice to charge.

But to charge him

getting goaded by a defendant.

You know,

that you have to let that

roll off of you.

Either the evidence is there or it's not.

And clearly, the evidence is here.

And you go for the the big guy,

the guy who who commanded the violence.

Stephanie, you know, it's interesting.

Ty was just saying that for Trump,

all things are the same, right?

That the fact that this charges here

would be truly historical

and they're in their context. Right.

Regarding the Constitution

and the rule of law,

to him is no different

than the documents case.

But I am curious as to whether you think

he will continue to claim

he didn't know he lost the election,

given that no one

with actually,

you know, information

facts can make any such claim

with a straight face.

And given that everyone around him

has testified

that they told him that he lost

the election,

Do you think he believes

he can still claim?

Oh, but I just didn't know.

So I just didn't have the intent.

I really thought I won, guys.

Yeah.

I mean, there's not much

I can guarantee in life,

but I can guarantee

he will continue to say that he lost

knowing there.

Continue to say that he won,

excuse me, knowing that

very well that he lost

I mean,

he has to double down, triple down

and quadruple down as usual

because his base believes him

and he needs that support.

He needs to fundraise off of it.

But also, if you just think about it

from a legal perspective,

if he admits

suddenly that he knew that he lost,

I think could

get him in a whole lot of trouble.

So in order to save himself

from the legal woes,

I think he'll continue

but he will never admit

that he lost, ever.

And I just think, you know,

it's about time.

I mean, the other cases

are important cases.

But, you know, the porn star stuff

probably hurt his family

more than hurting anybody else.

He stole some documents.

There's no proof

he sold them to North Korea.

But he was the cheerleader

for insurrection

and he still does, walking

around, giving speeches,

acting like everything's just fine.

That is an offense

to the American people,

giving speeches that would indicate

he would do the same thing

and would pardon people

in the whole deal.

So I just think, you know,

finally,

we're getting down to the real stuff

here.

This is

this is why

he's going to go down in history books

as one of the worst presidents,

if not the worst ever,

as a traitor to his own country.

And we're finally here.

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