light is one of the most significant ways you can affect your biochemistry
the best way to take care of your mitochondria is through light why have we not heard about this before they
found it ridiculous that why couldn't you go to a pharmacy or a fitness center and just like get something that really
boosts your health and that empowers your health and makes you stronger because it has that effect on the mitochondria when you're as into keto
and understanding the connections in your body it also just lit up for me how
much mitochondria and how light receptors are actually in your stomach it's like more there than anywhere else in your body like where the mitochondria
sit or like in your inner organs so if you can reach them with this light yes of course this can have an effect
the benefits of the Sun and why do you think they're trying to block it yeah about the Sun and not the politics of
the Sun or talk about the dangers of too much artificial light I mean we changed everything to LED lighting over it's
almost overnight most LED lights made for households have sort of shortened the wavelength to just be maximally
effective output in order to save energy ironically right it's a climate friendly slash uh you know that kind of
initiative but it has adverse effects on the human physiology they were never tested for they're not necessarily like
you know it's not dangerous they won't kill you to be exposed to one but when you're always around it that has profound consequences for us that we are
kind of just living through the experiment of hey Bjorn welcome to the ketocam podcast
thank you so much for joining me today nice to be here Ben thank you I want to start here with a quote that I heard you
say and I and I loved it and I want you to elaborate on the quote here's the quote light is one of the most significant
ways you can affect your biochemistry the best way to take care of your
mitochondria is through light please share more
well that was sort of the discovery that brought me into uh sort of co-founding a company that has created a a new device
that delivers an infrared near infrared and red light therapy specifically
and uh it is the discovery that there is such a profound effect on the mitochondria from
these specific wavelengths and that's documented back you know several several decades
um this is that this is not widely known was kind of a few of my co-founders were
mildly outraged when they discovered it it's like why have we not heard about this before
they found it ridiculous that why couldn't you go to a pharmacy or a fitness center or wherever and just like
get something that really boosts your health and that empowers your health and
makes you stronger like because it has that effect on the mitochondria um so we were all amazed and uh I knew
nothing about it from before but I had a background with keto and biohacking and
stuff so I already was part of the Paradigm Shift you could say like that part of what we co-founded the company
on um so yeah I would say uh a few things are proven to be more
effective for your mitochondria keto diet might be a very significant other way to affect it but that there is a
clear link between near infrared light wavelengths of specific power and specific wavelengths
and the effect it has on the mitochondria and the quite dramatic benefits that you can it can also then
create um yeah we have to get this out to people I agree 100 and you know it's not
surprising to me that this information was kind of covered because let's face it you can't really
put it into a pill right you can't make billions of dollars like you can with big Pharma so it makes sense to me that
most people don't know this but let's unpack infrared light near infrared far infrared what exactly that means and
what is the role of the sun with all this as well yeah I mean uh the sun is the start of
it all uh right because we we tend to think of it as an object or something that we kind of take for granted but we
live inside of this Cosmic ferocious sort of energy crazy Spectrum we are this little kernel
in the middle that's like shielded and it's like perfectly protected from it and we tend to think I don't know at
least how I grew up it was sort of like outer space with some sort of empty place you know uh and the really only reason
why it sort of feels like an empty place it's because our ears and eyes are adapted to this earth that we inside
this bubble so we can't our ears can't pick up but when you do all the I mean
all the signs like I'm you know I'm really into cosmology uh it's a sort of a side thing but all the stuff that
you learn about how the universe actually works uh it's ferocious out there so much energy so much power
and it's feeding everything right and we even have this day night circadian rhythm just to like you know
the the balance of life in a way hinges on being able to bounce back of like being like a wafer
six hours or 12 hours from that sun right so the power of the sun is just
like that's the force of it all and infrared is a very large part of the
spectrum just off the visible spectrum and is actually uh over 50 percent is
measured 53 of the energy total energy on the spectrum that we get is from the
infrared range it is a very profound part of the spectrum it's not just a narrow bandwidth right and that has
produces a lot of effects in the body that we can't see it because it penetrates through us
the wavelengths are longer so and because the wavelengths are long they have the the property that they can
penetrate through the skin so with the device we created to go straight on the skin and just be like maximally
efficient you can get up to 10 centimeters depth like that energy can reach
up to 10 centimeters in right which reaches um your mitochondria
yeah you reach the mitochondria in a way you couldn't um couldn't from other other kinds of
light and like with the panel with the Red Light
Panel which I also love I have one here too that is very different than your device and if you're watching on YouTube
I'm going to hold it up here you can see it's called the flex beam and we'll talk more about it because this is actually making contact with your skin so you're
saying this penetrates deeper about 10 centimeters deep versus uh red light
panels or even the sun it's not touching your skin directly number one but also there's a reflection coming off as well
the skin is that true yeah uh indeed and this uh the sign stemmed from our
inventor audien Helder who like discovered this and he's like a super super smart nerd about this could put
all this together when he realized the like he had the capacity to do it right but his first Insight is that the way
you can get red light therapy from a panel and they're all sort of they're mass produced like in China they're
actually made for plants originally and then someone re-made them so you can sell them to humans
and it makes sense it's a light source but the physics of it is that you if you're only this far like 10 centimeters
away from the source you have lost 90 of the energy already wow like it doesn't
it doesn't really travel wide like yes there may be some benefits of being in a room that's sort of lit with red light
or infrared but if you want to get that powerful effect like you if you actually want to reach
down and give a dose to your mitochondria of this energy you need it to be like really directly on and quite
powerful why can't you make contact with the panel why can't you just put the panel on your skin then
I mean you can uh of course it's I mean it's not super comfortable to have that
for various reasons onto your skin um but like if you have a small one that
you can cover apart or something but there's also significant electromagnetic radiation or emfs like coming from such
devices and they're usually when when they're grounded they have a lot of emfs so we designed our device specifically
that it's totally encased so it has like we have videos it's like measuring it it's like you know there's virtually
nothing so this is part of like it should come as close as possible and not be dangerous or cause any other
um potential damage I love that you measure the emfs that was a question I was going to ask you and your YouTube
channel is terrific you have a lot of videos on there about the different uses um for the flex payments and conditions
yeah it was terrific I had a great time looking at it and we'll dive a little bit more until into your products but I
want to stay on the topic of red light and photobiomodulation there are a lot of studies out there right I mean you
talk about it a lot I've seen a lot of studies on PubMed and other sources there are thousands of studies on the benefits of photo biomodulation so now
you're explaining to me there is a difference between actually physically having the red light touch
you versus being a few inches away or a few centimeters away I'm thinking and the question is like the studies that
show the benefits what are they referring to more of the panel or the person's away and if that's
the case that's interesting because if you're still losing 90 of the benefits but they're still showing you know some
positive benefit in the study that's pretty remarkable are there some studies that distinguish kind of the ones that are being applied or you're touching the
panel versus the ones that you're a dis you're distant from does that make sense yeah that makes good sense and it's a
uh there are various devices have been used it's usually trying to measure a certain dosage right so it's a certain
kind of output there's a calculation for you could put almost any kind of panel or light in as long as it has these in
these frequencies or this this and this power um but I mean we are doing in the small
scale that we can afford but building up so for us is very important to document this and uh
yes there's a lot of red light therapy devices out there but we are really marketing and selling and finding an
audience with people who don't know about that whole like what that universe is like in the
first place is their first introduction to the idea that infrared or light red can have some sort of some sort of
property uh so for us it's super important to document the science not just pointing to there's 15 000 papers
on PubMed on photobiomodulation wow I mean I'm not saying they're all good papers right but you know there are a
lot of people are working on it uh and and have been for for quite a while and and NASA developed this like prototypes
for it in the 2000s and they used it as part of their astronaut programs and stuff so a lot of it there's a lot there
but it hasn't quite reached through in medical science
for various reasons uh we can explore not Explorer and then also
um it hasn't um it hasn't been made available right in a certain kind of way
and the kind of device we could make now really rests on an LED Revolution that
happened a few years back where it's even possible to pack in certain kind of power like this kind of thing would be a
lot more difficult and more expensive just 10 years ago yeah and you know you're right you you ask a conventional
allopathic doctor about the benefits of red light therapy should I implement it for my you know health and they're going
to probably say um they have never heard of it or it's a little woo-woo there's no signs to show that it works so it's it's far along in
that case but in Aerospace right the biohacking space alternative medicine space we understand photobiomodulation
is very important we understand the role the importance of healthy mitochondria so with the mitochondria and you're
explaining how red light has the ability to actually penetrate the cell membrane mitochondrial membrane
and create this positive hormetic benefit what is the mechanism here is it is the is the light stressing
the mitochondria and that stress is forcing it to adapt and create um more mitochondria via mitochondrial
biogenesis is the stress also causing the weak mitochondria to go into mitophagy what exactly is happening
biochemistry wise I mean from what I know of it and and my background is more philosophy of science
and then science uh on this but it's a the prevailing mechanism or the one that
is uh usually referred to the most is the Hermetic stress type response that it causes that it stimulates like you
know it's a nicer word to say you've stimulate it but that's what stimulation is you were just ratcheting and they're letting it letting it bounce back you
know and that's um but there are many mechanisms with infrared it is it is
actually uh it's a little bit of a it's not a mystery but there's so many uh different aspects like we produce a
chart of this on our on our web page so just like all the things that happens when you energize mitochondria and the
list kind of like it's really it's got profound systemic effects right um
that that's I want to look at that chart I was just looking it up on right now that's fascinating it's on your
recharge.com website recharge.health I want to take a quick break from the video you're watching to
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relaxation and also boost testosterone levels what am I talking about what is this miracle drug well it's not a
miracle drug it's red light therapy as you can see here this is called
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not only do I use it my fiance uses it our dogs and cats love it and the device
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let's get back to today's video for mesis right and we know the value of hormesis that's what keto does that's
what fasting does what cold exposure does Sauna red light therapy that means there's a right way to do it and not
more is not necessarily better and what is a good I know everybody's different
everybody has different uh healthier mitochondria versus the mitochondria that might be in a cellular danger
response and dysfunctioning what would be a good gauge to know if you are in
that hormetic zone or if you've done too much red light or or any kind of hermetic stress what's a good way to
pick what's a good thing to pay attention to you know that's a really good question
Ben and is one of the challenges of this is finding exactly articulating what is the Goldilocks zone right for the dose
uh and I mean first off you're absolutely right is the one thing we usually have to tell people who get
excited about this when they first feel the effects that just because you
like use for 10 minutes and you do feel something where it seems good um that doesn't doing 60 Minutes is not
going to make it six times better yeah right um we our default mindset is like more
is better right in this case it's it's not so uh I mean we advise taking small breaks
that you use it daily and then take a break or two uh and keep observing what
is happening like if you don't have any um like if you're not noticing any effects like you do most people do in
the beginning like where it becomes noticeable by the way I mean you you have tried one
yeah yeah so I could share my experience right so yeah I and I have uh the panel
and I have some other um like more targeted but I've never had one that actually is is like this where
actually strap it on and make contact with it and then there's different settings here so there's three different
settings uh one two and three and you could explain a little bit about each different setting and what it does but
I've been using it for a week now and I've used it I woke up uh the other
morning in my upper backslash neck was bothering me so I was doing some stretches and then I thought oh I have
the flex beam so I applied it you know on my backslash shoulder and I did some
stretches and you know what the Pain's gone it went away in about 24 hours but it was borrowing me a lot that morning something that I'm dealing with right
now and I want you to coach me on how I should use this is um two days ago Sunday so what is that three days ago I
was playing basketball I do every Sunday and I was playing against the six foot five guy I'm six foot two so I'm not
sure but this guy was taller and I went to go drive to the basket and his knee went right into my thigh and I have this
deep contusion bruise in my thigh right now that I can't even walk without being in pain so I've been putting this on
there um once a day for 10 minutes right over that bruise should I do more which
setting should I do so you give me some coaching on how I should use that for this thigh contusion
yeah so in in this case I would say you put it on like you just place it where it hurts after it hurts right as the
initial uh stimulus um and then because this is relatively acute right this is something that
happened like an incident then one more time before bed ah to stimulate before
because your recovery is then really happens overnight right um and they're actually uh we have
significant in the earliest case studies we have on sleep and the connection with improving sleep with red light therapy
or like with uh with the flex beam it's also an interesting side effect but the the sleep cycle is very important right
um so that you keep applying it then every day and every day for up to a week I mean
you should be able to see something within a couple of days or feel that it's well you know faster than usual on
Monday the day after I couldn't even walk like I usually walk my dog twice a day and I was having really hard time doing that today I'm able to walk much
better I'm able to go up my stairs here in my townhouse that I live in so it's getting better um it's still really painful I'm not
able to run but with that being said I do think it is helping me because when I
looked up uh thigh contusions and that's exactly what I have mild thigh
contusions take about seven to ten days to recover and then more severe ones take about like a month I think mine is
more mild to a little bit severe and I'm on track to play again this Sunday like that is my goal and now I'm just going
to add in that nighttime routine of the flex payment and I'll give you I'll give you an update if I'm able to play basketball yeah cool I look forward to
hearing that that's a good challenge yeah and I think that's the kind of challenge I would love to hear about that actually because this is these are
the like I'm not gonna over promise anything because everybody is different than right it's hard to be like the
salesman of it but hey try it out for yourself you're already into self-experimenting and uh we have 15 000
users now wow like we have a trust pilot like excellent rating like people we we
do this because people love this device and what it does for them and that's what really drives it forward
and then everybody's different and finds a different use um you know but um
yeah see if it like it should help you reach that game but uh I'm gonna add a
nighttime routine starting tonight and then I'll continue with the daytime which setting should I choose one two or
three and explain the settings by the way yeah so it's uh it's about the ratio
between red and near infrared light red is really useful for skin so it
stimulates collagen production and really penetrates Only Skin level or just sort of toward the epidermis
whereas infrared goes deep right and has a slightly different effect that it penetrates so the difference between one
two and three is really how deep you want to treat so a setting one is mostly we say it's skin it's a skin level
there's just a light infrared part so you can penetrate a little bit but it's
mostly surface it's like what 625 nanometers or so 625 and then 8 15 near
infrared so it's just the ratio is different then it pulsates a bit differently so it's designed for skin
and setting two is the one if you're ever in doubt you can always use setting two because it's it's got just as much
of both red and infrared and it's pulsating it's like it's quite powerful infrared but if you go to
setting three you get very little red and only infrared even more
that's the deep tissue like the when you really need to reach something
for a lot of muscular sorry I should probably be doing more three than anything else sounds like like three is
probably going to be most effective but two will not be wrong so I I mean for myself I would say I would start with
two because you would have an effect and then you could go to three eventually to kick it up a gear I'll do
that they're both they're both gonna they're both going to give you a strong dose in 10 minutes yeah that's the cool
thing I like about it and I don't have to I could take it with me so I could be working I could be cooking I could be
doing without reading a book and it's strapped on you know for those who are watching on YouTube you saw you saw the device and you could always look it up
we'll put a link down below but it's scrapped on it has a strap here it has three light bulbs here
I don't know are they called light bulbs or panels we'll call them well they're uh light emitting diodes there you go
yeah and then they have the settings feature and then you turn it on select the setting and it's about 10 minutes long uh and here's what I found in my
research at least let's see if this has changed but Flex beam is three times more powerful than any wall panel on the
market I've heard you say that before is that still the case I think that they're well panels now that are similar power that uh when we
did that it was when we launched originally on crowdfunding that was the case from the looking at the specific area that you cover in terms of the
effect you get in that one spot if you put it over your shoulder uh is is much
much stronger than any of the prevailing like the Jews and things at the time I know that there's more power packed into
these panels now got it so I'm not going to stand it like I don't think that's right anymore yeah
out of your how many years of research have you been when do you start the company how long have you been
researching photo biomodulation well it started in 2018 uh and we did r d and prototyping and
develop until 2020 so that was the heavy research phase we already had an early idea for what it would do but a lot of
the extra time on development was trying to find like time to determine that Goldilocks
zone that you're referring to earlier because everybody's so different and to find settings that are safe but still
powerful and that will give results and finding advice around it too uh it's something we're learning as we're going and so
we're trying to be clearer about it we're going to be even clearer with our current users and give them more tips
and tricks if they you know along the line when they use the device um this is not something we're learning
from feedback as we get more and more users yeah there's a bit of like we're charting a new way with this and we're
trying to be super transparent about everything we have and we want to make sure it's very very safe but we want to
learn from all our users the five seven eight years of research
you've been doing on photobiomodulation at all the hours you've spent and all
the anecdotal evidence all the stories of you your users what's the most surprising
benefit you've seen with red light therapy photo by modulation what surprised you the most
that's a really good question I think for me personally uh it was the connection to the gut
yeah so I mean we now mostly promote this and sell it and talk about it in the sense of you know injuries that have
specific uses or like you strain something or for like a recovery of athletic issues that's the main sort of
storyline about this is really really powerful and good for um but it has this uh
when you're as into keto and understanding the connections in your body as much it also just lit up
for me how much mitochondria and how much light receptors are actually in your stomach and it's like more there
than anywhere else in your body right um so simply just putting it on like
that's how I first could notice that this does something you know what I mean because it impacted my digestive system
in such a way um in the beginning you're often looking for a way to like
to be assured of yourself it's really working is really doing something because the treatment itself is quite
invisible it helps when you understand the science but if you don't understand the science it's a bit like okay
it's like you're expecting it to be like a massage gun that is like popping or something right but it's like you're having to let it work and you have to
often sleep and just feel better the next day it's not about like instant right it's not like an instant thing
yeah so the gut has more light receptors than anywhere else that is interesting
so would the best the best time to use it be after a meal during digestion or
would that not be the best time to use it um I think if you don't have digestive
issues like after a meal is not necessarily um uh
the best idea on an empty stomach it can be a very powerful way to uh to stimulate your gut microbiome
uh in the morning it's a way to reset like if you want to help reset your
circadian rhythm for example using it in the morning in the evening and then on the stomach is uh is one of
the more effective settings and personally I like it because you're sort of you're hugging it and you're getting the warmth into your core right
so um I know a lot of people who favorably use it as part of meditation in that way and they're just like making themselves
more focused on the gut and then having this sort of healing 10 minute session that is also a
you know a Letting Go moment and just soaking up the energy where you know it's going to be the most effective
systemically um yeah that was the most surprising thing to me that it was not just muscle
ligaments but you know the core I love I
love that idea I haven't used it on my gut yet and I will knowing that uh what
about something that is very common for the ladies out there who have a menstrual cycle or menstrual cramps and
extreme cramps around their ovaries um it could sideline them for a few days I've seen this with my fiance can this
help have you heard about this helping with menstrual cramps yeah a lot actually for for my girlfriend for lots of people
we have testimonials on it um it's one of those things they actually want
to want to get the word out about more but see part of the challenge with this
is um I feel like already Ben I'm starting to sound like the sort of infomercial salesman because it's like
it's just like there's this benefit there's that benefit and it's uh it's very hard to grasp unless you
really have the mindset that I think like you and I and a lot of your listeners have that are just like
seeking for like rationally for information but for most people it's just it sounds too good like you know
that it's working for so many things so we focus on muscle repair and the sort
of pain relieving aspects related to Athletics but one of the most powerful some of the most powerful cases we have
are with endometriosis and women's reproductive Health
um it's like using it for 10-minute sessions that you actually can really stimulate like all your organs right uh
like you had on your show uh recently a doctor talked about this
uh the amazing doctor had on who talked about how much
mitochondria is in your ovaries and your eggs yeah talk to Courtney hunt yeah yeah yeah yeah that was an amazing
interview and uh just something about like where the mitochondria sit or like
in your inner organs so if you can reach them with this light yes of course this can have an effect it's gonna have a positive effect
um so for a lot for a lot of women it's like uh it's it's a good friend to have a few days of the month
yeah I could imagine well now that I'm gonna tell my fiance to use the next time she has hers so
I mean yes I get it you don't want to sound and we don't want to sound like we're just selling the product and we're
we're not but we're talking about the mitochondria and it's just it's essential to have healthy functioning
mitochondria and there's many ways to do it exercise uh the sun will help with the mitochondria of course ketosis
fasting cold exposure sauna red light therapy there's many many ways to do it and when you when you upgrade your
mitochondria you're going to upgrade your health and that's why it's like yeah it helps with this condition and that condition because we have
mitochondria essentially in all the most of our cells and the cells that have the highest concentration of mitochondria
are the cells that are most metabolically active and very very important like the gut you mentioned the
ovaries the testicles the eyeballs the brain so what about the testicles for guys because I've read studies on
photobi about my photobiomodulation increasing testosterone is this safe to
put like against the testicles yeah we have a separate protocol for that though because we really caution against
putting like using too much so for that I believe we have on our website we have
case studies also on it where we show testosterone increase but it's very
important not to use too much infrared light because it's a very sensitive area
so that's where uh that's where setting one usually comes in handy because the
red light is totally safe and the infrared in there is just enough to give you that light stimulus so for
um for anything that's uh it's like endocrine or you know
um what hormone related you mean yeah hormone related uh would be like places
to just be cautious about how much you expose it at the time that makes sense and you know the same
thing the same thing with the sun right the sun is great you don't want to get burned that's not that's not the goal and it's interesting you know I'm just
the topic of the Sun real quick we know and you could speak on this more than I can but the sun is just so important to
health and Humanity but it's interesting that we have villainized sun the sun we
have villainized this amazing a healing Source we have right outside every single day to put the body in a
healing State and we're trying to block it I don't know if you probably have seen that but Bill Gates and others want
to block it I think I read something where the United States government is looking at a 44-page report to do
something to block the sun we've said it's the cause of skin cancer and melanoma like can we can we get a little
bit deep into what's going on here and how the Sun is so important for Humanity
um yeah about the Sun and not the politics of the sun or yeah I mean the politics unfortunately is involved with
it but ideally I don't want to get too much into the politics yeah like what's
going on um in terms of how powerful it is or the
source at all this you know the the benefits of the Sun and what do you why do you think they're trying to block it
you could go you know you don't have to hold back if you don't want to know why they're trying to block it I
mean presumably it's uh overwhelming for global warming yeah that's uh it's a
rationale but uh yeah thinking through the implications of how that would change and filter the light we have here
on Earth I mean uh it's important to at least be able to talk about the like
the light environment that's a like a clunky term but just the idea of that
there is something called the light environment that actually directly always impacts you I mean we chose near
infrared because of this link to mitochondria and it's hey it's super powerful but photobiomodulation is about
the whole Spectrum like the all light actually impacts you
it's just some things more effectively and more visibly than others but you're always stimulated by the whole radiation
that like when you're out in the sun you have the whole Spectrum the whole time right and and speaking of which I mean
artificial light is talk about the dangers of too much artificial light like right now I have
this big light right here I have some lights behind me now I'm getting some natural light through my windows but
it's still being filtered through glass so it's not the same thing so I am very aware of the artificial light and I wear
things like blue light blocking glasses to help filter it out I get outside as much as possible so what are some of the
problems with too much artificial light and not enough um of the near-infrared light when it
comes to the Sun or red light I mean we changed everything to LED lighting over
it's almost overnight but you know as on the civilizational scale it was like one moment if you if you take the advantage
point of you know from the Moon looking down at the Earth or something we had electricity if you went through the 50s
and the 60s you would see at night on Earth that it's lighting up everywhere right it's like more and more
electricity there's more and more power being used at night all these light bulbs and then at some point if you
could have a frequency meter or like certain glasses you could look and see the frequencies that of that are emitted
of the light on Earth around early 2000s it just kind of all shifts on the
spectrum because most LED lights made for households have sort of shortened the wavelengths to just be maximally
effective output in order to save energy ironically right so it's like it's a climate friendly slash uh you
know that kind of initiative um but it had it has adverse effects on
the human physiology they were never tested for but their Mass implanted they're not necessarily like you know
it's not dangerous they won't kill you to be exposed to one but when you're always around it uh like that has like a
profound consequences for us that we are kind of just living through the experiment of you know so at least being
mindful of um where your sources of light come from uh yeah super important then yeah so
important to consider that so is it a good idea to block the Sun for global warming or should we do something else
yeah you keep wanting to give me time it's an interesting time honestly I
haven't I haven't explored the issue in detail to me it sounds like one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard
um and it sounds like something that is like a movie script kind of idea but
um I'll I'll read more about it after this interview and keep an open Line how's that that sounds good that's fair
that's totally fair let's get back to the topic of uh red light therapy here I have I have a whole bunch of conditions
that I see my students deal with and people that come to me we covered a couple of them like low testosterone uh
cramping low back pain is very very common something I used to deal with for many many years um thankfully Annette I
don't deal with that now but can you share a little bit about what this can do for low back pain which can be so debilitating
yeah I mean that was my own entry point into it like that's the one what I use it most consistently for I had uh some
sort of old injury coupled with the bad dead lift 15 years ago or something it was one of those things that it's just
it healed but it it's always weak it's always the weak point like
um having that so uh I find it very effective for that and it's very practical to use like because it
literally sits the the width of it for someone your size and mine it perfectly fits your lower back and you can just
wrap it around um and you know you can just walk around like you could even use
it with exercising if you wanted to but just to um
uh like to relieve the area first like that's the the sort of um I don't know
if you found this when you tried it yourself if you felt that sort of pulsation that comes out of the device or the warmth that it gives yeah it gets
really warm and then there's a fan that turns on so it doesn't get too hot right yeah so uh it cools down uh the lights
because they're quite powerful lights they are yeah I I love that it's 10 minutes and I love
that it's so flexible you can use it wherever you go yeah so low back pain great option for that
there's also um you could use it for muscle soreness recovery sleep I mean there's a lot of
studies and it's not just your product that I'm referencing here it's light that red light therapy in general but this one is a targeted one that's
different than most out there um personally I feel really good when
I'm consistently getting red light um whether it's from a panel but now I've been using yours it's more targeted
I feel really good with it I do take some time off and here's my thought process when we were talking a little
bit ago about how do you know you're in that Goldilocks zone that's that sweet spot here's what what I think would be
the best way to gauge that well two ways number one how do you feel that day that you've used red light therapy or you did that
cold exposure or you did that workout if you felt more energized the rest of the
day you probably are in that Goldilocks zone if you felt more depleted and tired you probably did too much so pay
attention to how you feel the rest of the day also looking at heart rate variability is such a great tool to see
if you've overdone it it's going to give you a good idea of the balance of your nervous system if you did too much not
only will you feel off but you'll see you'll see your heart rate variability drop and it'll stay lowered for a couple
of days and that's probably not a good thing but if you see your heart rate variability increase that means you had a good balance of parasympathetic and
sympathetic so I would look at that those two things how you feel an HRV to gauge if you're doing just enough the
right amount or too much of it what do you think about that yeah I think that's great uh I'm actually can I hire you for
our version 2 Team where we're trying to exactly establish this because uh we can we can measure those things in the next
device that we're developing so that we can we can give you data back to show the effect right so uh maybe we talk
after the show if you yeah we can enroll you in a research program that is so smart you know looking at also resting
heart rate as well that body temperature that is so smart to do that because it's you know we could do that now and it's
super super cool we could actually like see exactly what's happening of course it's important to pay attention to how you feel but also you could look at
these numbers engage and see if you're doing it because a lot of people they can't do this meaning they can't do
10 minutes of a cold exposure or even three minutes of a cold exposure and maybe they can't even do multiple Flex
beam sessions because they're so they're in a Cell danger response and their mitochondria are uh are stuck in what's
called this wartime metabolism Dr Robert navio has coined this where the their stress bucket is so high they
encounter another stress in the mitochondria lower energy production to
deal with that stress and then it gets stuck there like covid right long covet is an example of the CDR response the
person is so stressed their stress bucket is so full they get covered they
deal with covet after a week or two covet is gone but now the mitochondria are stuck in the CDR response and if you
go and tell them to do a three-minute cold bath or a multiple 10 minute red light therapy sessions they're going to
feel awful because they're not going to adapt to it right so we got to make sure it's being used to the right for the
right person for the long uh right amount of time is what I'm trying to say yeah for sure that's exactly uh that's
exactly the goal yeah on your YouTube channel I was telling you before we hit record which
is what is the name of the YouTube channel I don't have it in front of me it's recharge Health it's uh the company
and the device we made is called flexbeam so the YouTube channel is called recharge off I'm looking at it now I was
looking at it earlier today just to get an idea of some of the some of the anecdotal evidence you have
on here and you're getting some good amount of views first of all good job with your YouTube channel but I it's really interesting because I
see a video here on how this person healed carpal tunnel syndrome with the
flex beam maybe you want to talk a little bit more about what causes carpal tunnel and how this helps with that because that is a common problem with
people on the computer all day yeah sure that is an in that's a either
inflammation or restriction kind of uh problem like
um anything related like carpal tunnel syndrome and similar kinds of conditions uh
I mean in parallel you have arthritis like issues as well is usually about constriction somehow uh so I mean the
mitochondria that we talk mostly about here that's the sort of the central mechanism so to speak that really
energizes your whole system and locally wherever you are applying it um but one of the one of the effects or
physiological effects of near infrared light is to stimulate better blood flow
and increasing oxygenation in the blood so that's why it has this local effect
of reducing inflammation if there is inflammation but opening up the vessels
so whatever the energy you have in your hand can flow more freely after using it it's like it's widening it if I mean my
medical and scientific team would kill me for using such such a terminology but that's not only how I can how I can
describe what we see as the pattern of the different kinds of conditions that our carpal tunnel syndrome is one
of them uh where clearly this kind of light and dosage has um has an effect
and uh with users not like for that kind of condition reporting sort of third
fourth day is when it's like they started really noticing something they never noticed before
right that's super cool yeah that's awesome um I love that you have so many
different conditions and again all roads lead to the mitochondria hey keto camper I want to interrupt the video real quick
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I'm going to drop a link for you down below in the notes of this video okay let's go back to this video now let me
ask you this somebody's probably watching and wondering this are there any contraindications any medications that you shouldn't combine with this
anything that you should be aware of who should not be using this uh they're not many contrary indications
uh because it's generally a very safe technology and as I get studied for safety a lot uh that's why we put it in
our sort of first device but uh one group should be careful as if you had a
recent tattoo with like very dark ink uh to be careful because it has potential burning issue
if you overuse it because it's like it changes the condition of the skin uh
generally like uh I mean cancer patients and pregnant women
Etc uh are there are no they're usually told that to avoid such
things because there are no studies on whether it's safe or not uh there are no studies because you're
not allowed to make those studies correct yeah there's the loop there's a lot of things that are just saying that
pregnant women should not use it and people with uh late stage cancer should not use it and so on is because you
can't get an ethical ethical board to approve a survey of those people so we don't know basically
so that's uh you know that's why we caution against it is one of our contraindications
potentially cancer patients and pregnant women uh what about because these are
these are very powerful when I look at the when I turn this on your device versus like a Red Light Panel that I
have here uh this is a lot more uh powerful it's so I I don't look at it
with my eyes and I think in the brochure with this it said not to look out with the eyes it comes with goggles so
um is that important to not look at your device with your eyes should you wear goggles all the time and can you put this over your head or your eyes and
with your eyes covered or would it be safe yeah I mean uh we have goggles in there
because in your country we could be sued by someone if we didn't put them in there okay got it uh if it was up to me
I wouldn't put the goggles there just a very clear uh warning that infrared lights because you can't see it like
it's literally invisible if you stare at it uh your eyes won't blink because it doesn't recognize the
blinking reflex you have comes from visible light so therefore you will not blink and therefore like over time if
you sit there for a while you can really damage your eyes uh it is not at all dangerous to look at
the light on the flex beam or anything and you start it and you pick it up and it's like it's totally not a problem it
is if you put it over your eyes for several minutes and I don't know why you would do that but yeah don't do that
that's why that's why we would that's why we have the goggles okay understood and can you use it on your head you want
to place it over your right then we generally don't recommend putting it over your brain or your like a head or it's not the sign for the face it can be
a very nice you can you can fold it and curve it and have the first setting the skin setting you can get a very nice
glow glowing thing you can hold it in front of your face for 10 minutes it can be really warm up your skin and have
nice skin benefits but it's not a it it's not a beauty device it's like a
very powerful recovery device yeah after a multitude of uh of different
conditions so where do you see this this space of photobiomodulation going in the
next five years like what do you what do you foresee is going to happen it's going to be more widely accepted by the
conventional approach or what do you expect is going to happen next five years yeah also an excellent question uh
there's definitely a sense of a paradigm shift that I think is questing alongside with the space that you're also in with
with Keto and so on there's uh this there's a paradigm shift in terms of how we
approach our health and that photobiomodulation will be uh will be
more or less known not as a term but that this this idea I think will reach
more widely but I'm also somewhat worried about it being over hyped and
drowning in a sea of cheap products uh many of them that don't actually produce any benefits that are just riding the
hype right now I already see that on Amazon unfortunately yeah Amazon is like a like
one of the reasons we decided not to sell on Amazon is because we looked at what actually comes up there and it's
like do you want to be the premium device in the trash Heap or yeah I mean sorry I'm sure there are other
competitors are watching I'm sure there's nice devices out there too but uh I don't mean to disparage but it's
just yeah there's a lot of junk and right now there's um the whole idea red light therapy I think
is about to enter the mainstream but as a cosmetic application yeah the face
mask phenomenon has now I've counted I've lost count of companies I think there's
50 or 100 companies that are all producing basically the same thing and then I you know I don't know they
should work I don't know I haven't tried one the idea of it is so but they're only for the face and for the face you
need just a very tiny power like to have certain kinds of effects
um but that I think is uh is going to make like red light therapy synonymous
with something that's like potentially superficial potentially not really working it can also have a boomerang
effect that it just becomes known as something that is just junk so
it it matters how you approach it and what's your light source and how you go about it you know it's not a given that
everyone will Embrace this um and photobiomodulation captures so much uh and many of the effects of some
of the wavelengths that are established are still so subtle right so
one of the reasons I found near infrared to be the most interesting is because it's among the more like it's probably
the most like profound effect that you can that you can feel and you can note right so uh I'm not sure if
photobiomodulation will be mainstream in five years but that's something like this kind of treatment that we've tried
to create and it's through this device that this is like an something you have in your home that you
don't have to be in like a special interest group or follow a certain like certain podcast or a certain stream or
anything that it's just it's a thing that you have so that's what we are on the path to to
create this is just our version one but our vision really is that once you make
it easy enough for people to use and make it powerful enough and it's also logged in with your already digital
applications it can tell you stuff about yourself like why would you not want to have one of those at home you don't have to be like a a super nerd like us to
sort of appreciate that it's like your home doctor right it's just that people haven't heard about this technology we
can put this together which is what we're doing then in five years um I think a lot of people can have
heard about that yeah I love that and you're right it's going to be a double-edged sword kind of
like what keto is keto is so popular it's a double-edged sword a lot of people you know do it the wrong way unfortunately so we're gonna drop a link
for those watching and listening we're gonna drop a link for the flex beam product down below with um my affiliate
link with the coupon code uh they hooked you all up with the coupon code so just go check out the link if you're watching
on YouTube it's down below if you're listening on the podcast is down below go check out the products uh potentially
purchase it give it a shot I've been using it I'm gonna test it out with my thigh to see if I can play basketball in
a few days I'll give you some feedback on that uh very final question for you Bjorn is
about um gratitude I love gratitude vitamin G it's such a
incredible healing supplement puts you in this loving incredible healing state so I
want to ask you what are you grateful for right now I am honestly very grateful to be here
and have this conversation with you uh this is one of the most fun conversations I've had in a long time about this topic
and I have plenty of them I really enjoyed discovering your show and what you do I think you do a really really
important job so I'm really grateful for what you bring out as uh as I told you I
think before we went on air I discovered keto back in 2014 around the time
that you did as well and yeah so when I discovered now like with I mean these
kinds of resources you're bringing out through books and podcasts and everything that wasn't really the literature was very thin at that point
uh I think there were a lot of scientific stuff but you know like you're really helping to spread a
message I'm grateful to anyone who understands
and participates in this well I think is a paradigm shift for our health that we're you know trying to
move the world in the right direction of discovering more making things more available for people to be healthier
without relying on a lot of the typical things that we go to for help with
health with medical stuff right well there's a new way of doing things so yeah uh thank you for the
opportunity and uh I want to thank your listeners for following us through this
I appreciate that I appreciate that viewer no thank you for making a product and putting all the energy the bandwidth
the resources to get it out to the masses I'm excited to hear you know about version two and and what that's gonna have and include it's so important
to have something like this so we could get people away from the sick care system get them off their medication get
them away from these nasty surgeries and these dangerous surgeries these fad diets and I'm all for it anything that
harnesses the innate intelligence and allows the body to do what it's designed to do which is what your product does I'm all for it and I'm grateful for the
product and I'm grateful for you so thanks for coming on the show anywhere else you want them to go uh website social media to check you out yeah we're
recharge health is our company so recharge.health is our URL and you find us on Instagram Facebook whatever enter
recharge health or Flex beam you'll also find this we'll drop that down below thank you Bjorn for sure thank you so
much
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