Ex Trump staffer: Trump team has ‘reason to be worried’ about Jan. 6 probe

 

During the

Trump administration, Sara Matthews

and Victoria Nurse,

who served as chief counsel

for then Vice President Joe Biden.

Sarah,

so you were one of the witnesses

who testified before the House January

six select committee.

So you're aware of Trump's actions

around the Capitol attack.

Are you at all surprised to hear

that the special counsel's

case against Trump seems to be larger,

involving more evidence

and more witnesses

than Trump's attorneys expected?

I don't think that's surprising at all.

I think that they had access

to different material

that the congressional committee

could not get access to,

particularly witnesses.

Obviously,

we know that the vice president went

before the grand jury in this case,

and that wasn't something that happened

with the January six committee.

And so I think that they have reason

to be worried, the Trump team,

because I think that

they will have even more evidence.

And obviously,

the evidence that was uncovered

in the January six

committee hearings

was really shocking, particularly.

Cassidy Hutchinson,

my former colleagues testimony.

So, Victoria,

according to multiple outlets,

including The Wall Street

Journal, the target letter

that Trump received on Sunday

from Jack

Smith says he could be charged

with deprivation of rights,

which might be AP.

People are speculating,

taking away the right

to vote for the right to vote yeah.

Conspiracy to commit an offense

against the United States,

which that's obvious, and tampering

with a witness.

What do these charges

tell you about the case

that the special counsel might have?

Well, let me just

clarify one thing on tampering.

That's the title of the statute,

but it's really an obstruction statute

that they're referring to. Right.

They're investing that.

They're allegation being the Trump

tried to stop their investigation. Yes.

Yes. In some ways.

So I think these are pretty expected.

The only twist given

the January six committee,

they're expected

the only twist is really the deprivation

of rights, the conspiracy

to deprive one of the voting rights.

And that makes perfect sense.

It's an old statute.

18 U.S.C.

two, 42

and it's been here since reconstruction.

And it's often associated with rights

not to be discriminated against,

but voting rights.

It's one of our most fundamental rights.

Sara, I want to read you this reporting

from The New York Times.

Quote, Subpoenas issued by Mr.

Smith, that's the special counsel

suggests

that he has been scrutinizing Mr.

Trump's political action

committee, Save America PAC.

It raised as much as $250 million,

telling donors

the money was needed to fight

election fraud, even as Mr.

Trump had been told repeatedly

that there was no evidence to back up

those claims of election fraud.

The House January six

committee had also suggested that Mr.

Trump and his associates

had defrauded his own supporters.

It described

how after the election,

they appealed to donors

as many as 25 times

a day

to help fight the results in court

and contribute to a defense fund.

But no such fund existed,

and they use the money

for other purposes,

including spending more than $200,000

at Trump Hotel properties.

I mean,

do you think that Donald Trump repeatedly

takes advantage of his base?

Yeah, I think he preys on his supporters.

He lies to them.

And obviously that results

in these people giving them money,

thinking that you know,

they're helping save democracy

all because they think

that the election was stolen.

Yet Trump has been told repeatedly

there is no evidence of fraud,

despite his claims

that there was substantial fraud.

And he was told repeatedly that he lost.

But he is just unwilling

to accept that fact.

And so it is really disgusting to see him

take advantage of his base in that way.

And obviously,

that ultimately led to a deadly riot

on our nation's capitol.

Those folks would not

have been there that day

unless Donald Trump told them that

Mike Pence had an authority

to overturn the election,

which Trump was told.

Mike Pence did not have

that authority yet.

Those people showed up

because they were told that.

And so they thought they were helping

save our country.

And so it is really sad

and just frankly disgusting for him

and anyone

who is still associated with him.

Would that theoretically

be breaking

the law

telling people

that you're going to telling supporters,

we're going to use this money

to fight election fraud

even though, you know, there's

no election fraud? Fraud.

I mean, that's the essence of this.

The fake elector scheme is fraud.

And there's another aspect to this.

You know,

you have to prove

if you're going to obstruct justice,

that he acted with corruption.

So there's a problem.

Some people say, did he benefit from it?

So that evidence will take away

an important legal argument

that was raised in

some of the other January 6th

indictments.

So in the in the Target letter,

Special Counsel

Smith told Trump

he had four days to appear

before the grand jury

if he wanted to present his case.

This is kind of the last step

before an indictment comes down.

Usually that's tomorrow.

If you were advising Trump,

would you tell him to go

before the grand jury? No. Why not?

Well, because

given what we've seen of his loquacious

snus and tendency to take himself

to a deeper hole,

as a lawyer,

you want to protect your client.

And so I would suggest that he stay away.

Most people,

most lawyers are saying that

in the press,

oftentimes defendants

don't appear

before the grand jury

because it's only a probable cause.

It's not beyond a reasonable doubt.

So he can make all sorts

of legal arguments

about the indictment moving forward.

He can challenge the evidence.

He doesn't really need to show up.

Sara, you quit the Trump

administration on January six, right?

That was the day that you resigned.

But I just want to ask you,

and maybe this is an unfair question.

Did you think that Donald Trump

preyed on his supporters

and took advantage of his supporters

before then?

Or is that something that

and you were in denial about it

and you look back on it

and just explain that to me?

No,

I knew that on election night

that Donald Trump had lost

and I think that folks

were still holding out hope,

thinking that things would turn around.

But obviously, his litigation

failed time and time again.

I wanted to stay on

with the Trump administration

till the very end

because I had made my boss

that promise that I would.

But ultimately,

it was a slow burn for me.

I was disgusted by his lies

about the election.

And that

obviously ended up with the deadly riot

that happened

on January six at the Capitol.

And so I looking back,

I have some regrets

about not speaking out sooner,

but that's why

I think it's so important

that there are folks like myself,

Melissa Ferri, Griffin,

Cassidy Hutchinson, etc.,

who are willing to call out these lies.

Absolutely.

Sara Matthews and Victoria

Harris, thanks to both you.

Appreciate it.

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