He was forced into exile.
He was the only lawmaker
to vote against Putin's
annexation of Crimea in 2014
which forced you, Ilya, to have to leave.
So Alex standing in Odessa tonight
and I think what's interesting is there's
you know I was there last week
you get the air raid sirens
but sometimes
Alex points out in recent days
you don't get the air raid sirens
and you still get the missile.
So you know this has been an onslaught
now for at least three days.
We'll see what happens this hour.
How long do you think Putin will continue
to bombard Odessa before his death?
That it will be forever.
He knows what he is
indeed is trying to do right now
is to prove
that he is
the guy who controls the Greensill.
And whether he wants that to happen,
that will happen,
whether he doesn't want.
So that will not happen.
And so the reality is that the Black Sea
fleet of Russia
is weaker than the one else, Turkey.
And so that's why they cannot sink
the ships in the Black Sea.
So instead,
they're trying to destroy the ports.
And obviously the Odessa is the port
that that's the border.
Then that's
just technically
as anti-missile
defense is way harder
to shoot those drones
when they approaching you.
Usually you shoot it in the back
because they're coming from the sea.
So there's nowhere to put your
your people in front.
Right.
Right at the promenade.
You're right there
on the on the on the on the beach there.
Putin made a visit today
to northwestern Russia near
the Barents Sea.
Really far out there, Ilya, before
he went there,
the Kremlin said he would
make a regional trip today.
They didn't say where.
Obviously, they've been a lot of concerns
about his safety, even drone attacks.
Right on Moscow itself.
But when you see that in his behavior,
how concerned
do you think he is about his own
safety, his own life or death?
Oh, that's good. He's afraid.
That's that's pretty obvious.
He's afraid of our guys
who may just have Stinger with him
or any other
anti-aircraft missile
that can shoot him from the skies.
And also, I think that he senses that
in the West,
the attitude towards
him is changing
and that somebody may give a command.
So let's let's change the guy in Russia.
Hmm.
So you think he does I mean, evidence or
as much as people here in America
are afraid of doing this.
You know,
this administration is very cautious
about this as much in Russia.
They do believe that it's
already happening
and that somebody from Syria or whatever
is working on that. Right. Right.
Well, and then, you know,
you had the Russian sub commander.
Right.
Killed by,
they say, a Ukrainian
but after tracking up
and they've got infiltration
of some sort. Right.
And they don't understand
that they cannot control the situation.
So today
in Belarus, video they released
Lukashenko's Belarus
showing the Belarus and forces
holding military exercises
with the Wagner Group,
which was supposed to be
relocating to Belarus,
even though Prigozhin himself
doesn't appear to have done that.
There is still
a real question
about where the Wagner loyalties lie.
And this is crucial, right?
Zelensky said.
Why need to put troops up on that border?
A foreigner is going to come down.
Wagner leaves the front.
It changes my war.
But you think the Putin promotion
relationship is not
what many others think?
But they others
think this is a real coup.
And Putin was weakened. You see that?
You think it might be different?
Well,
I think it was a real cool,
but it was a coup
against the Russian military
and not against Mr. Putin.
I think both Mr.
Putin was aware and that Mr.
Putin still at good terms with Mr.
Prigozhin.
Mr.
Gordon, I think, is
one of the most trusted mantra, Putin.
And that's one of the most trusted
one of the most trusted.
Yes.
Let's say you have a very long
history of relations
should be back in Saint Petersburg
when essentially Putin was running again.
And what precaution
was providing for the gang as an asylum
is the gathering place,
which has to be as secure as possible.
So that's one of the most trusted person
in any gang.
The guy who provided the premises.
But you're saying that you think
that Putin
and Prigozhin, in a sense,
may have been in this together
versus the military?
I think that Putin knew that Prigozhin
would not stand against him.
That's that's his.
He was, of course,
taking some precautions.
But at the end of the he
he trusted Prigozhin.
And I think that's what's happening
now is the perfect indication
that I was right.
I was saying this from the very beginning
and the fact that which and then met
with Wagner commanders
and everything
else, that's happening
proves that they still are in good terms.
And that's actually makes me worried
because being in in business,
I'm not here so much about Ukraine.
I think that Prigozhin himself
wanted to get out of Ukraine
for a very long time.
He was sick and tired of
being in Bermuda,
and he lost a lot of men there.
What I afraid this
his teammates running against Nate
or there is a railroad
that connects mainland
Russia with Kaliningrad
and is running a provocation.
There is a natural thing to do
because in this case,
because it looks like a non-state actor
and he is also not Russian,
but is actually known
from the territory of Belarus.
So which I will say it's not me
and then the Lithuanian,
some folks
would obviously call for Article five
and then
people like journalists will say,
why should we do it right?
We'll see.
Obviously a fearsome proposition there.
Thank you very much.
I appreciate your time,
Ilya Ponomarev, as I said.
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