IRS whistleblower speaks out about Hunter Biden probe

 Special Agent Joseph

Ziegler joins us now.

Thanks so much for being here.

We appreciate it.

Let me start with

just the big picture here.

What is your main

allegation

you're making about this investigation

into Hunter Biden?

Well, I wanted to thank you so much

for having me on your show.

I think it's important

that your audience hears essentially what

I presented facts

yesterday in my testimony.

So my main allegation

is the equitable treatment of taxpayers.

We have to treat every taxpayer

the same in investigating our cases

with the Department of Justice.

And I think that's important

that everyone understands that

that that to have a fair justice system,

we need to treat people the same.

It doesn't matter

what your political beliefs are.

Does it matter how much money you have?

Everyone should be treated the same.

Right.

And the suggestion is that Hunter

Biden was given special treatment

and the U.S.

attorney did not

go proceed

as aggressively

as he would have had Hunter Biden

been someone else.

So, David Weiss, as you know, the U.S.

attorney, said

in a letter

to Judiciary Committee Chairman

Jim Jordan, quote,

I've been granted ultimate authority

over this matter,

including responsibility

for deciding where, when

and whether to file charges.

I read that earlier.

It wasn't just in this letter.

He said it multiple letters.

Do you think he's not telling the truth?

So it's not

I don't know his intentions

with what he stated there.

But what I can tell you is the facts.

I know based on conversations

I had with a signed prosecutors,

that he went to the the Washington D.C.

U.S.

attorney's office

bringing the case there.

They told him no.

He had two reasons

he wanted to charge

Hunter Biden here in D.C.

I mean,

so he wanted to bring the case there

in D.C.

to charge for the 2014

and 2015 tax years.

They told them no.

And I think it's important

that in his letter,

he said that his authority is

geographically restricted

to the district of Delaware.

And if he needs to go outside of that,

he needs to ask to partner

with these other U.S. attorney's offices.

And if they say no,

then he needs to ask for that

special attorney authority.

And he was assured

that is not counsel authority.

No. He says special attorney authority.

And I think it's important

that you understand

that they haven't turned over a document

that says, here's

the letter where we gave him

the special attorney authority.

And all we're trying to do is say that if

if this were anyone else,

if this were Joe Joe taxpayer,

he would be getting

a much different treatment

than what was at place here.

Well, you're saying that

there would be other charges

in other jurisdictions.

Is that is or

is that what I'm taking from this?

So the prosecutors assigned to this case,

because he was charged,

I mean, he did have a plea agreement.

And I mean,

he is going to go before a judge.

I mean, it's not like he's

not facing anything.

I'm not excusing it, but I'm just saying

there are these allegations

and he is going to face

a courtroom proceeding, etc..

So the for sign prosecutor of the case

agreed with recommending

felony and misdemeanor

tax charges for Hunter Biden.

David Weiss also agreed with that.

And I know that from a meeting

that I had with him

in late August, early September.

And on top of that, you have

David Weiss essentially

So they all agreed to charging this

the felony, a misdemeanor.

So DOJ, DOJ policy on this

is that their tax policy

is that

if you have a felony with a misdemeanor,

you have to charge the felony,

and that's to prevent

an equitable treatment of taxpayers.

And they didn't do

that is what you're saying.

And according to the charging document,

they only charge two misdemeanors.

And one of those tax is related to 2018.

So let me just give you an opportunity

to respond to some of the things

that Democrats

on Capitol Hill are saying.

First of all, they're saying

why would a Trump appointed U.S.

attorney David Weiss lie?

So I have no idea what his what

his motives or what his beliefs are.

All I can do

is present the facts to Congress,

and it's for them to determine

and the American people

and the administration

to make

the proper decision

on how to move forward.

So let me ask you another question.

So you're a 13 year veteran of the IRS,

is that correct? I am. Okay.

Is this the most high profile,

most potentially politically

sensitive case you've ever

you've ever worked on?

Yeah, I would say so.

And when you say

that you saw abnormalities in this case,

like what other cases

are you comparing it to?

Just the normal Joe taxpayer case.

So I'm actually working

an even bigger case than this.

Not as sensitive as this,

but an even bigger case in this.

And I can tell you, the assigned

prosecutors in that case

has not acted anywhere near

what we were going through,

being constantly hamstrung

not following normal process.

The storage unit location

that we wanted to do

the search warrant on.

I think that it's important

for people

to understand that we had a plan

to move forward

Even David Weiss agreed with that plan.

But then they were at the same time

telling defense counsel

that we know about this storage unit

and that you need

to turn over the record.

So we were relying on him and his counsel

to turn over those records

to the government

vaults versus us going in

and getting those records.

So another

you testified yesterday

you wanted to interview President Biden's

grandchildren, Hunter's grown,

grown children.

They're adults,

but you were told, no, you couldn't

Even without those

interviews,

you still had enough

evidence, in your view

to recommend charges

because he was deducting things

related to them

that he what

he wouldn't be allowed to

to deduct in his taxes. Right.

I mean,

so you already knew

the crime had happened. You didn't.

The argument would be

you don't need to talk to us

to Hunter's adult children.

You already have the evidence

that what he did was wrong.

So tell me why why

that's not a satisfactory answer.

So when we work our tax cases

and it's an expense

that is deducted

for as a business expense

on someone's tax return,

you have to essentially

they're presumed that

that's a business expense

until you prove that it's not.

So part of it is going to the third party

to get those records. That's one step.

And then interviewing that person

to determine why was that?

Why was that expense made?

And then a lot of times

those witnesses could lead you

to other things

that could lead you

to other evidence expenditures

that it might have

that might have been made

related to them.

So obviously, it's

a politically sensitive case.

And I don't disagree with you

that theoretically everybody's

should be treated equally before the law

and in investigations like this.

One question I have is,

and because we hear Democrats

saying this,

that you and Shapley have not produced

any evidence of criminality

by President Biden,

is that when they say

that, is that correct?

So what I can tell you

and what we stated yesterday

we are working with the House Ways

and Means.

We are to get President Biden's taxes.

No, it's

we are working with the House Ways

and Means to any records

that Congress has asked

for related to this investigation.

We are working through the process.

They can vote

on whether or not to release

those to the full Congress.

And that's the process

that is a part of being a whistleblower.

So this was cited

and you were called before the committee

because they're talking about the House

Republicans are saying

that the federal government

has been

weaponized against conservatives

and Republicans.

They give any number of examples

of there

being very aggressive

treatment of Republicans

and in their view

and their characterization.

Kid glove treatment for Democrats

You are a self-described Democrat.

You worked at the IRS for 13 years.

Is that an accurate

description based on

what you've witnessed in those 13 years?

So I'm not going to speak

to the weaponization of of the government

because I don't think that's appropriate

for me.

I'm just going to present the facts

as I know them.

I think one of the big things

that I mentioned yesterday was

we need to have an independent attorney

with authority

to come in here

and see

and make sure that things

were done correctly. To the law.

And I think it's important

that there

there may be ancillary offshoot

cases from this that are sensitive,

that need to be investigated

it appropriately,

that may not have venue in Delaware.

So we don't run into that

same exact problem.

And that's

all I'm trying to say

is that we need to have someone in there

to look at that.

Do you know of criminal charges

against Hunter Biden that were not filed

that definitively?

There is evidence, proof

that they should be filed, that

he should be facing justice for.

So, again,

meeting with

the attorney, assigned attorneys,

we all

and that included Department of Justice

tax attorneys

all agreed for felony and misdemeanor

tax charges

related to 20, 17 2018 and 2019.

I didn't see that in that

charging document

that was filed in Delaware.

And those charges

would have been for one undeclared income

so would have been a false return

tax charge.

So it's 70 2061 and a false

or I'm sorry tax evasion so 70 201.

So evading your income tax.

So you tell me

because you're the expert, not me.

Is it

not possible

that in the dealings

with the Hunter Biden attorneys

they just agreed, okay, we'll drop this

in exchange for a plea of guilty

because that does happen.

So I can tell you

there's a lot of cases around the U.S.

right now

where people are being charged with

both the felony and misdemeanor

and not having the felony dropped off.

So I think it's important

that it's in

the it's in the

it's in the tax manual, their policy

that states that if you have the felony

and you have the evidence there

and there is also a misdemeanor

you have to charge the felony

in order

to not have inequitable

treatment of taxpayers.

And so in your mind,

should Hunter Biden be sentenced to jail,

sentenced to prison

Is that what you think

justice would look like

based on the crimes committed?

So, again, I'm not here,

but about Hunter Biden.

I'm here about the bigger,

bigger picture of all of this.

I blew the whistle

because I saw an inappropriate things

being done throughout this investigation.

I brought facts.

I brought things that had happened

as I recalled them to Congress.

My supervisor,

Gary Shapley, did the same thing.

And I think it's important

for the American people

don't read our transcripts

to read the transcripts

because we did that under oath.

We can be

if we said something,

if we lied, willfully lied.

And that

that's so important

that read what we said

and you can determine for yourselves

one way or the other.

Do you think that it's possible that

because this was the president's son,

there were extra

sensitivities and extra protocols

because of that

that would have been extended

to an investigation

of a Republican president's son

or daughter as well.

But but

and since this is the highest

profile, biggest,

most sensitive

investigation you ever were part of,

you weren't used to that.

But that really is

just generally

what happens

when it has to do with

any powerful family, any power.

And again, I'm not excusing it,

but I'm just saying, like,

I'm wondering

if this is just

how like

the DuPonts would be treated or,

you know, because you're from Delaware.

You know, I'm from Georgia. Okay.

But you're working in Delaware.

You know what I'm saying?

Like that

any powerful family might be treated

with kid gloves like this.

Again, I'm not saying that's right,

but that maybe that's what happened.

Yeah.

And and to that point,

I mean, I think it's important

that I understood

that it was a politically sensitive case.

I'm completely aware he was an attorney.

Records had to go through

a filter review.

So I'm completely aware

of all those problems.

And that's why

I think it's important

that we have an independent attorney

who has authority,

so a special counsel,

independent attorney

that can get in there

and make sure

that things are done correctly.

And that the

that the proper charges are brought

that would restore faith in our justice.

Well, I know it's

not an easy thing to be a whistleblower.

I know it's

not an easy thing to walk into the public

and say things like this

and you're going to be attacked.

You were attacked before by Trump, people

who thought that you were

you were part of a conspiracy

and likely you're going to be attacked

by the other side now.

Joseph Ziegler,

thank you so much for coming on the show.

We appreciate it.

Thank you so much for having me.

I really appreciate it.